(I asked this question already and got a VERY rude answer TWICE. Yahoo has even pulled this question because people here are trying to eliminate these types of questions for some reason. If you disagree with something below and need to be rude about it please go to the politics category and answer another question!)
What research am I talking about? Here’s something from the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health (2007) available at the website for the Coalition For Mercury-free Drugs:
http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/071130_Geier_etal_PublishedReviewOfThimerosalPaper1.pdf
The CDC’s own Agency for Toxic Substances and Diseases Registry (ATSDR) says, "The nervous system is very sensitive to ALL FORMS [my emphasis] of mercury" (source: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts46.html )
EPA guidelines for maximum daily allowable exposure to mercury and mercury compounds is given at .1 micrograms per kilogram body weight (source: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228 ), but the flu vaccine containing Thimerosal gives a person much higher exposure than this (e.g., a 40 pound 5 year old girl would be getting 14 times the maximum "permissable" level after injection with the first two necessary doses).
How can so many news media sources along with the CDC and the World Health Organization encourage the public to believe that vaccines containing Thimerosal are simply "safe" (even for pregnant women!) in light of this kind of research? The people who argue that the above sources are somehow "invalid" refuse to believe that there are indicators that all research on the safety of ethyl mercury in vaccines is indeed mixed and NOT conclusive. Plus, if you’re ready to cite an epidemiological study that evaluated a large group of individuals, it doesn’t necessarily generalize to an individual case in which for some reason someone is more sensitive than most people to the dose of mercury you get when vaccinated. There hasn’t been a move by the FDA to remove Thimerosal from all pediatric vaccines for no reason!
Is it that the term "safe" is so vague it doesn’t really mean anything anymore?
If you want to read what I think:
http://cultureofone.blogspot.com/
Liam: To say "Mercury from thiomersal undergoes more rapid clearance from the blood than other compounds" is a bit vague. The World Health Organization reports the half life of ethylmercury in a typical vaccine is 7 days. Given how lethal mercury compounds have been shown to be through some very scary reports, who knows what happens in some cases in as little as 7 days? Also, this "clearing" of ethylmercury shown in studies that measure serum levels don’t rule out that when ethylmercury breaks down into its elemental components the mercury isn’t stored in tissue such as in kidneys, liver, or even the brain to do some kind of damage later. Moreover, the same website you link to admits the FDA did recommend that all pediatric vaccines no longer contain Thimerosal. Yet, you see this year the CDC says the vaccines containing Thimerosal are safe for all pregnant women, infants, and children. That’s a bit of an inconsistency.
Elle: I’ve seen that video from FOX. That’s Dr. Kent Holtorf. He’s one of the few doctors to come forth and admit there’s plenty of unknowns regarding how "safe" the flu vaccines are. You notice how the newscaster makes sure to make it look like Holtorf’s opinion is "outnumbered" 3 to 1? Real "balanced news" there!
Liam: You say, "There is no potential for cumulative toxicity." How can you say that when there’s not enough evidence for it in the study you linked to? Wishful thinking?
I can’t believe you provide a link to a study in Pediatrics (known to be advocates of pharmaceuticals) and you are skipping over the details and going right to your conclusion, which is NOT supported by this kind of research.
1. "Allergy to thimerosal is well-described in the clinical literature, primarily in the form of delayed-type hypersensitivity." Interpretation: There’s evidence that it’s not "safe" for everyone.
Liam: (con’t)
2. Why do you keep insisting it’s so important that ethylmercury is not methylmercury? From the same source in Pediatrics that YOU provided the link for: "Because high-dose exposure to ethylmercury from thimerosal results in toxicity comparable to that observed after high-dose exposure to methylmercury, and because of the chemical similarity of the 2 compounds, it appears reasonable to consider toxicity of low doses of methylmercury and ethylmercury to be similar."
3. The article admits that infants have received dosages of mercury through vaccines that exceed the EPA guideline for maximum daily exposure. That’s called "inconsistency" when it comes to setting standards for maximum allowable levels.
4. This article repeatedly says there is "no evidence of harm" due to lack of data. Even logically, this doesn’t equal the conclusion that Thimerosal is "safe." It means WE DON’T KNOW.
5. "Precisely identifying the risk from thimerosal in vaccines is problematic because of gaps in knowledge of its toxicity." That’s not true. It’s well known how lethal it is. they are trying to defend why a so-called "safe level" can be put into vaccines and expected to be tolerated even by an infant. When they say, "The comparative toxicity of ethyl- and methylmercury has not been well-characterized," they contradicted themselves. (Read #2 again.) This article is filled with imprecise and unclear language as well as the basic assumption that if you can’t find evidence for harm then harm doesn’t must not exist. That’s called "bad science." Thanks for the article. I now have 2 examples of sham research published by Pediatrics.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread505010/pg1 25,000x level of mercury in swine vaccine
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/.....505010/pg1 25,000x level of mercury in swine vaccine
References :
I’m sure we will probably never agree on this, but here goes:
The guidelines for mercury compound are exposure are daily doses, i.e. this is daily exposure not 1 or 2 single exposures. Mercury accumulates over time so the limit could be significantly less than the toxic dose because it would reach there eventually.
It’s exactly the same as the guidelines for radiation exposure. It might be perfectly fine for you or me to get an X-ray but the radiologist who does this every day has to stand in the other room. The radiation from some procedures such as CT-scans can be hundreds of times that of the X-ray so far in excess of what the radiologist could receive on a daily basis but its okay for the patient because they only get 1 or 2 exposures.
Back to mercury, look at the last paragraph under thiomersal toxicity on the FDA page you cited:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBl...../UCM096228
Mercury from thiomersal undergoes more rapid clearance from the blood than other compounds. This will alter the steady state it would reach even from repeated doses.
It is my understanding that mercury toxicity has a threshold effect, do you have evidence that the small quantities in 2 flu shots could reach the required toxic level? The toxic doses of thiomersal on the FDA page seem far too high for this.
Since thiomersal is cleared faster from the system shouldn’t we be more concerned with other organomercury compounds such as methylmercury from fish? These are easily in the same range as the vaccine doses and unlike the shots are repeated over time. If mercury exposure was to have a cumulative toxicity, that’s where I’d expect to see it (and not just with severe contamination like Minamata).
Additional:
Good question: why did they move remove thiomersal from pediatric vaccines?
This sums it up pretty well:
"Limited data on toxicity from low-dose exposures to ethylmercury are available, but toxicity may be similar to that of methylmercury. Chronic, low-dose methylmercury exposure may cause subtle neurologic abnormalities. Depending on the immunization schedule, vaccine formulation, and infant weight, cumulative exposure of infants to mercury from thimerosal during the first 6 months of life may exceed EPA guidelines." (1)
I’m not claiming that it was a bad decision, but there are couple of issues you need to consider before generalising to the flu shots.
Firstly, this is based on methylmercury, which as we have established has different properties. Children receive a lot of vaccines in their first 6 months of life, so cumulative toxicity had to be taken into account. Methylmercury lasts longer in the system so the cumulative effect is greater than for ethylmercury.
Analysis found (using methylmercury) that the cumulative dose may exceed EPA guidelines, but not ATSDR, FDA, or WHO guidelines, which have a higher limit (1). This is because EPA guidelines contain up to a 10 fold safety factor (1).
In conclusion, everything is toxic at the right dose and kids shouldn’t be exposed to mercury over a certain threshold. If childhood vaccines did contain mercury, it’s possible that the cumulative dose would exceed recommendations for methylmercury exposure but only according to the EPA. As ethylmercury is cleared faster the actual cumulative dose is lower anyway, making it only a theoretical risk.
Once again, this is for cumulative exposure, since children receive lots of paediatric vaccines in a short amount of time. Children will receive a maximum of 2 shots for the pandemic virus. The mercury is only present because they need multi-dose vials in a pandemic situation. This is the first flu pandemic in 41 years. There is no potential for cumulative toxicity.
References :
1. http://pediatrics.aappublicati.....107/5/1147
I am definitly not letting my child get the h1n1 vaccine- read what the white house had to say in the link below:
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnew.....inst-h1n1/
How can the "president" declare H1N1 a national emergency but will not vaccinate his children?
References :
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnew.....inst-h1n1/